Jews, Israelites, Khazars, Kevin Brooks and Yair Davidiy
As posted on Khazars dispute on Physics Forums
"Friendly" fellow....NOT. This brash fellow has some website on the Khazars. Too bad he wasn't a real historian who accepts history AND the Bible as two witnesses to Israelite identity truth. Regardless of his vain rantings, the United States remains Manasseh and England is Ephraim, sons of Joseph!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Brook"
To: "davidbenariel"
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: Yair Davidiy
I am familiar with EVERY ARTICLE ON THE WEB about Khazars.
Brit-Am is an agenda-driven cultish propaganda organization which
dismisses the truth about Khazar people's origins to fit their pet theory
that Israelites are everywhere throughout Europe.
Since you're associated with them, I have no interest in corresponding
with you further. I RELY ON FACTS, EVERYTHING I STATE IS THE TRUTH.
The Khazars were ORIGINALLY TURKIC - ALL the sources say so.
They mixed later with some Hebrews, but that wasn't their main lineage!
And some other contentions of Brit-Am are also false: Khazars aren't
Agathyrsoi, and Picts aren't Agathyrsoi, and Celts and Brits aren't
Israelites, USA isn't Menashe. Yair Davidy is no historian.
Don't waste my time with any further religiously-inspired false
interpretations of history.
And as you are a Christian you have no business going by a Hebrew name
unless you have Israelite ancestry, nor do you have any business trying
to establish a Jewish Third Temple on Jews' behalf.
And there's no need for a new Third Temple anyway except in the minds of
extremist wackos who think ritually slaughtering animals accomplishes
something.
References:
http://www.britam.org/now253.html
http://www.britam.org/now317.html
http://benariel.port5.com/
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=4359&messageid=1019880875
http://www.mideasttruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=437&sid=53a5fd5d872378c0ff39ab5be6ac0b5a
http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/topic/9463-1.html
About your alleged attempt to destroy the Dome of the Rock so that Jews
could rebuild the Third Temple:
http://www.paktoday.com/joana30a.htm
http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/3180/edition_id/56/format/html/displaystory.html
You admit your real name is David A. Hoover - and that you're a "a blond,
"non-Jewish" American" who is a "Christian Zionist" believing in "the
Israelite identity of the peoples of Northwestern Europe":
http://www.jewish.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forums&file=viewtopic&topic=195&forum=40
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, davidbenariel wrote:
Shalom,
Are you familiar with Brit-Am Israel and their article on the Khazars?
Here it is: http://www.britam.org/khazars.html
Sincerely,
David Ben-Ariel
*************
Truly Abrahamic (aka Kevin Brooks)
02-27-2004, 03:58 PM
David, I did not give you permission to copy my private email to a public forum. This shows your lack of understanding of copyright law. The email I sent you had a valid copyright notice:
This email is Copyright (C) 2004 Kevin Brook, All Rights Reserved. No retransmission is permitted.
The Christian cult of British Israelitism, founded in the 19th century, is not based on truth, but on biased biblically-inspired interpretations. Brit-Am has the preconceived notion that Western Europeans are Israelites and then tries simplistically to tailor information and names to suit that idea. Whereas by contrast I have no preconceived notion and am open to real facts from objective sources (read: real historians - the type you and Davidy casually ignore).
It is very telling that Brit-Am's Yair Davidy uses defamation tactics to attack Dunlop, Koestler, Artamonov, myself, and other historians of the Khazars, without actually addressing the points we raised. His method is to selectively present his point of view and not presenting the actual facts presented by these authors. For instance I didn't see any time when Davidy quoted the several medieval documents that call Khazars TURKS. Why is he afraid? Because it defeats his theory?
Many medieval writers attested to the Khazars' Turkic origins including Theophanes, al-Masudi, Rabbi Yehudah ben Barzillai, Martinus Oppaviensis, and the anonymous authors of the Georgian Chronicle and Chinese chronicle T'ang-shu. The Arabic writer al-Masudi in Kitab at-Tanbih wrote: "...the Khazars... are a tribe of the Turks." (cited in Peter Golden, Khazar Studies, pp. 57-58). T'ang-shu reads: "K'o-sa [Khazars]... belong to the stock of the Turks." (cited in Peter Golden, Khazar Studies, p. 58). In his Chronographia, Theophanes wrote: "During his [Byzantine emperor Heraclius] stay there [in Lazica], he invited the eastern Turks, who are called Chazars, to become his allies." (cited in Theophanes, The Chronicle of Theophanes Confessor, translated by Cyril Mango and Roger Scott, 1997, p. 446).
Yes, Khazars mixed with Israelite immigrants (who came to Khazaria AFTER Khazars already existed as a group), but that doesn't mean Khazars were predominantly or exclusively Israelite.
It's one thing to say that some Western Europeans have a small amount of Israelite ancestry. It's quite another to suggest that their principal origins are in Israel. I believe the former is true, but the latter is definitely false. When people speak about part of Spain's Christian population descending partly from Sephardim who were forced to become Catholics, it's true. But Celtic Welsh people, Germanic Frisian & English people, etc. can't be shown to have any
connection to Israelites whatsoever. Nor American Indians (the Mormons' pet theory).
By the way, please prove that Yair Davidy has recent Jewish ancestry! And that the Bible is a pure work of history! And even that Jesus existed!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Ben-Ariel
02-27-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Truly Abrahamic
David, I did not give you permission to copy my private email to a public forum.
I didn't ask for it, especially when such "private" email is PUBLICLY posted on your website. What are you trying to hide? What's so special about your OPINION you must "guard" it?
Many medieval writers attested to the Khazars' Turkic origins...
You're arguing with yourself, your strawman is a figment of your biased imagination, especially since Mr. Yair Davidiy never ignores the alleged Turkic origins of the Khazars.
Yes, Khazars mixed with Israelite immigrants (who came to Khazaria AFTER Khazars already existed as a group), but that doesn't mean Khazars were predominantly or exclusively Israelite.
A CONFESSION! You belatedly acknowledge Israelite origins of Khazars, and yet try and cover your tracks by your theories that seek to minimize its importance. Pitiful.
It's one thing to say that some Western Europeans have a small amount of Israelite ancestry. It's quite another to suggest that their principal origins are in Israel.
More confessions from copyright man! Yes, indeed, the Western Europeans are Israelites!
I believe the former is true, but the latter is definitely false.
YOU "believe." Regardless, both the Bible and history PROVE our Israelite origins, O doubting Thomas! But then again, Joseph's brethren were BLIND to his identity and he was right in front of them. History repeats itself!
By the way, please prove that Yair Davidy has recent Jewish ancestry! And that the Bible is a pure work of history! And even that Jesus existed!
It sounds like you have some REAL issues. Prove it yourself. What about YOU? With that "Christian" sounding name, are you a Jew trying to fit in with Joes? (Joseph/Anglo-Saxons). And if you're a Jew, why haven't you made aliyah/ascent/emmigrated to Israel? Or it is (always) "NEXT Year in Jerusalem..."?
"Friendly" fellow....NOT. This brash fellow has some website on the Khazars. Too bad he wasn't a real historian who accepts history AND the Bible as two witnesses to Israelite identity truth. Regardless of his vain rantings, the United States remains Manasseh and England is Ephraim, sons of Joseph!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Brook"
To: "davidbenariel"
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: Yair Davidiy
I am familiar with EVERY ARTICLE ON THE WEB about Khazars.
Brit-Am is an agenda-driven cultish propaganda organization which
dismisses the truth about Khazar people's origins to fit their pet theory
that Israelites are everywhere throughout Europe.
Since you're associated with them, I have no interest in corresponding
with you further. I RELY ON FACTS, EVERYTHING I STATE IS THE TRUTH.
The Khazars were ORIGINALLY TURKIC - ALL the sources say so.
They mixed later with some Hebrews, but that wasn't their main lineage!
And some other contentions of Brit-Am are also false: Khazars aren't
Agathyrsoi, and Picts aren't Agathyrsoi, and Celts and Brits aren't
Israelites, USA isn't Menashe. Yair Davidy is no historian.
Don't waste my time with any further religiously-inspired false
interpretations of history.
And as you are a Christian you have no business going by a Hebrew name
unless you have Israelite ancestry, nor do you have any business trying
to establish a Jewish Third Temple on Jews' behalf.
And there's no need for a new Third Temple anyway except in the minds of
extremist wackos who think ritually slaughtering animals accomplishes
something.
References:
http://www.britam.org/now253.html
http://www.britam.org/now317.html
http://benariel.port5.com/
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=4359&messageid=1019880875
http://www.mideasttruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=437&sid=53a5fd5d872378c0ff39ab5be6ac0b5a
http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/topic/9463-1.html
About your alleged attempt to destroy the Dome of the Rock so that Jews
could rebuild the Third Temple:
http://www.paktoday.com/joana30a.htm
http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/3180/edition_id/56/format/html/displaystory.html
You admit your real name is David A. Hoover - and that you're a "a blond,
"non-Jewish" American" who is a "Christian Zionist" believing in "the
Israelite identity of the peoples of Northwestern Europe":
http://www.jewish.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forums&file=viewtopic&topic=195&forum=40
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, davidbenariel wrote:
Shalom,
Are you familiar with Brit-Am Israel and their article on the Khazars?
Here it is: http://www.britam.org/khazars.html
Sincerely,
David Ben-Ariel
*************
Truly Abrahamic (aka Kevin Brooks)
02-27-2004, 03:58 PM
David, I did not give you permission to copy my private email to a public forum. This shows your lack of understanding of copyright law. The email I sent you had a valid copyright notice:
This email is Copyright (C) 2004 Kevin Brook, All Rights Reserved. No retransmission is permitted.
The Christian cult of British Israelitism, founded in the 19th century, is not based on truth, but on biased biblically-inspired interpretations. Brit-Am has the preconceived notion that Western Europeans are Israelites and then tries simplistically to tailor information and names to suit that idea. Whereas by contrast I have no preconceived notion and am open to real facts from objective sources (read: real historians - the type you and Davidy casually ignore).
It is very telling that Brit-Am's Yair Davidy uses defamation tactics to attack Dunlop, Koestler, Artamonov, myself, and other historians of the Khazars, without actually addressing the points we raised. His method is to selectively present his point of view and not presenting the actual facts presented by these authors. For instance I didn't see any time when Davidy quoted the several medieval documents that call Khazars TURKS. Why is he afraid? Because it defeats his theory?
Many medieval writers attested to the Khazars' Turkic origins including Theophanes, al-Masudi, Rabbi Yehudah ben Barzillai, Martinus Oppaviensis, and the anonymous authors of the Georgian Chronicle and Chinese chronicle T'ang-shu. The Arabic writer al-Masudi in Kitab at-Tanbih wrote: "...the Khazars... are a tribe of the Turks." (cited in Peter Golden, Khazar Studies, pp. 57-58). T'ang-shu reads: "K'o-sa [Khazars]... belong to the stock of the Turks." (cited in Peter Golden, Khazar Studies, p. 58). In his Chronographia, Theophanes wrote: "During his [Byzantine emperor Heraclius] stay there [in Lazica], he invited the eastern Turks, who are called Chazars, to become his allies." (cited in Theophanes, The Chronicle of Theophanes Confessor, translated by Cyril Mango and Roger Scott, 1997, p. 446).
Yes, Khazars mixed with Israelite immigrants (who came to Khazaria AFTER Khazars already existed as a group), but that doesn't mean Khazars were predominantly or exclusively Israelite.
It's one thing to say that some Western Europeans have a small amount of Israelite ancestry. It's quite another to suggest that their principal origins are in Israel. I believe the former is true, but the latter is definitely false. When people speak about part of Spain's Christian population descending partly from Sephardim who were forced to become Catholics, it's true. But Celtic Welsh people, Germanic Frisian & English people, etc. can't be shown to have any
connection to Israelites whatsoever. Nor American Indians (the Mormons' pet theory).
By the way, please prove that Yair Davidy has recent Jewish ancestry! And that the Bible is a pure work of history! And even that Jesus existed!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Ben-Ariel
02-27-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Truly Abrahamic
David, I did not give you permission to copy my private email to a public forum.
I didn't ask for it, especially when such "private" email is PUBLICLY posted on your website. What are you trying to hide? What's so special about your OPINION you must "guard" it?
Many medieval writers attested to the Khazars' Turkic origins...
You're arguing with yourself, your strawman is a figment of your biased imagination, especially since Mr. Yair Davidiy never ignores the alleged Turkic origins of the Khazars.
Yes, Khazars mixed with Israelite immigrants (who came to Khazaria AFTER Khazars already existed as a group), but that doesn't mean Khazars were predominantly or exclusively Israelite.
A CONFESSION! You belatedly acknowledge Israelite origins of Khazars, and yet try and cover your tracks by your theories that seek to minimize its importance. Pitiful.
It's one thing to say that some Western Europeans have a small amount of Israelite ancestry. It's quite another to suggest that their principal origins are in Israel.
More confessions from copyright man! Yes, indeed, the Western Europeans are Israelites!
I believe the former is true, but the latter is definitely false.
YOU "believe." Regardless, both the Bible and history PROVE our Israelite origins, O doubting Thomas! But then again, Joseph's brethren were BLIND to his identity and he was right in front of them. History repeats itself!
By the way, please prove that Yair Davidy has recent Jewish ancestry! And that the Bible is a pure work of history! And even that Jesus existed!
It sounds like you have some REAL issues. Prove it yourself. What about YOU? With that "Christian" sounding name, are you a Jew trying to fit in with Joes? (Joseph/Anglo-Saxons). And if you're a Jew, why haven't you made aliyah/ascent/emmigrated to Israel? Or it is (always) "NEXT Year in Jerusalem..."?
posted by David Ben-Ariel at 7:55 AM
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